Robyn Openshaw: Hello, everyone. We have a really great interview today with Dr. Judson Wall, who is one of Utah’s premier biological dentists, and we’re talking about the FLUORIDE controversy.
Welcome, Dr. Judson Wall.
Dr. Judson Wall: Thank you, Robyn. It’s a pleasure to be here.
Robyn: Dr. Wall has a beautiful, state-of-the-art clinic in Bountiful, Utah. I get the sense that you’re a technology ninja. You get the latest technology before anyone else.
Dr. Wall: Thank you for calling me a ninja and not a geek. I appreciate that.
Robyn: Today, we’re talking about fluoride because Americans are under the impression that we need to put fluoride in our water. So, Dr. Wall, where did we even get the idea that it’s a good idea to put this chemical in our water?
Dr. Wall: It all stemmed from a study done back in the 1950s in Michigan that showed that after fluoridation of the water supply, the incidence of cavities decreased by 50%.
What they didn’t tell us was that the incidence of all cavities also decreased by an equal measure even in communities that didn’t have fluoridated water.
So, we can’t say that the decrease in caries–which is another name for cavities–was related to fluoride at all, since it occurred in both non-fluoridated and fluoridated areas. That doesn’t make sense.
Robyn: This is very similar to the time when the World Health Organization and the pharmaceutical industry gave immunizations credit for the disappearance of smallpox, even though it actually disappeared faster in non-immunizing countries than in immunizing countries. As they say, correlation does not always imply causation.
Dr. Wall: Absolutely. I agree.
Robyn: What does that have to do with what you’re telling us about that original study?
Dr. Wall: When it comes to medicine, you can find a study to prove any point that you want. You have to look at everything the study revealed, not just the one portion that supports your idea. You need to look at the whole picture and all the points of the data on the graph.
In this case, it’s important to look at what fluoride is, where it comes from, and what effect it has in the body. On the pro-fluoride side, they argue that fluoride is necessary for good oral health because it kills bacteria and prevents bacteria from growing. The term for that is bacteriostatic.
When fluoride is incorporated into the tooth, it replaces some of the natural ions, and the tooth becomes fluoroapatite instead of hydroxyapatite.
The resulting cases of fluorosis are one of the biggest problems in dentistry right now. The spotting of the teeth is not only unsightly, but it’s also a reflection of what’s going on in the bones.
If you have dental fluorosis, all of your bones are becoming brittle. With the high incidence of osteoporosis and the bone issues that women have in the United States, we don’t need that insult added to injury.
Robyn: This dental fluorosis, where the teeth look brown or mottled, is damage to the teeth.
If we’re swishing with fluoride, that’s one thing, but when it’s in our water supply and we’re drinking it, it’s systemic.
What you’re saying is that fluoride affects all of our bones, not just our teeth, right?
Dr. Wall: Absolutely. There are three studies from the past few years that show it. One report found that fluoride exposure during embryonic and suckling stages for a baby impaired learning and memory ability in mice.
Another study from 2017 shows that exposure to fluoride in early life changes the protein expression in the hippocampus of the cerebral cortex. It causes neurological changes.
There are more than 50 studies that have linked fluoride with decreased IQ in children. How can you argue with that? I don’t understand how our professional dental community can refute all of that evidence.
The easiest way to find all of this research is on the website iaomt.org. It’s the greatest organization out there right now promoting the health of patients.
You can find information about the fallacy of fluoride, the harms of mercury, and all sorts of things that patients need to know about. It’s an excellent resource.
Robyn: I know some dentists are IAOMT-certified. What do you think about that? Do you need to be IAOMT-certified?
Dr. Wall: I am certified, and I think it’s an excellent way for a dentist that’s not aware of proper protocols to be educated. It doesn’t take long, but it’s important for learning how to treat our patients better and how to practice well.
If we are constantly being poisoned by fluoride and mercury and all of these other toxins that are so prevalent in dentistry, we can’t provide excellent service to our patients. So, IAOMT-certification helps us to be informed and educated.
Robyn: Do you think that it’s a negative if someone has not been IAOMT-certified?
Dr. Wall: Once someone understands what the IAOMT has to offer and all of the educational resources they have, yes, I think it would be a negative mark against them to not be.
My recommendation to patients would be to call a potential dentist and interview them.
Robyn: We have a list called 17 Questions for Your Dentist. This list of questions actually educates the patient as they read it, so they’re learning something about biological dentistry.
Let’s get back to fluoride. What is fluoride? Is it a byproduct of some other industries? Tell us what it is chemically.
Dr. Wall: The main source of fluoride that goes into our water is hydrofluosilicic acid, which is a chemical byproduct from fertilizers. It’s a waste product.
These companies that make fertilizers have to get rid of the waste product, and our government agencies buy it because our professional agencies recommend fluoride in the water.
However, this material has a skull and crossbones on it. That raises a red flag about whether we should be putting it in our water supply. There is a study showing the health damage that has occurred to the people who work with fluoride and put it in the water.1
Fluoride is not a benign substance. It is one of the most toxic substances on earth, and it reacts with everything. It’s at the top of the periodic table of elements and will displace iodine in the body, which we need.
When we talk about thyroid disorders, do you know how many thyroid disorders there are on the Wasatch Front in Utah?
Robyn: A lot.
Dr. Wall: It’s as common as peanut butter. It’s crazy how many people here have thyroid issues, and it’s largely because fluoride is permanently displacing iodine on the thyroid.
Robyn: So, taking iodine isn’t going to fix it, because something is really disrupting that process.
Dr. Wall: Taking iodine will help, but it should be monitored under the care of a physician. One of the best things you can do is to get the fluoride out of the system.
Robyn: Reasonable, rational people don’t like to hear that there’s a conspiracy, but did fluoride come to be endorsed by the American Dental Association and other governing bodies because the chemical industry wanted to sell it? And the dental industry bought into it, and now it would be hard for them to back out of it, after decades of promoting fluoride. Are the motives here really that dirty?
Dr. Wall: I can’t speak to that. I think, by and large, our profession wants to help our patients, but because only part of studies are reviewed and recognized, there’s been some misunderstanding.
We just need to go back to the science. We need to look at the literature and look at how fluoride affects health. There is too much published evidence and research to ignore.
Robyn: You told us about several research studies involving fluoride. Was there another one you wanted to talk about?
Dr. Wall: There is a dental survey that was completed by the National Institute of Dental Research, which is one of the biggest research organizations in the United States.
It is the largest survey conducted in the US and examined over 39,000 school children from 84 communities with both non-fluoridated and fluoridated water supplies.2
The study compared the number of decayed, missing, and filled teeth between the two groups and found no statistically significant difference.
Robyn: So, 50 different studies show we’re putting our children’s neurological development at risk with fluoride, and now another huge body of evidence shows it doesn’t even prevent cavities.
Dr. Wall: Exactly. There is no evidence showing that systemic intake of fluoride [from fluoridated water] decreases cavities. That’s the science.
Robyn: I think that information would be really useful to parents who take their kids to the dentist and are offered fluoride. Many times, it’s not even offered–it’s just prescribed, because it’s been the standard for decades.
So if you believe that the evidence shows fluoride doesn’t actually prevent cavities, and it can cause collateral damage, do you think I should let my child rinse with it at the dentist office?
Dr. Wall: Absolutely not. There is no reason to do that.
There are other things people can do to strengthen the health of their teeth or their kids’ teeth that won’t cost an arm and a leg or require you to put a toxin put in your mouth.
Number one, limit the refined and processed foods you put into your body.
The more processed the food is, the easier it is to feed the bacteria in the mouth. Bacteria plus sugar equals acid, and acid plus teeth equals cavities. It’s very simple.
Robyn: So, the diet matters.
Dr. Wall: It matters hugely.
Number two, it’s also important that patients eat good fats every day and that they’re able to digest those fats every day.
If a patient is not getting enough omega-3 essential fatty acids or doesn’t absorb them, their mouth will become acidic. Great sources of omega-3’s include flax oil, sprouted flaxseed, free-range organic eggs, and high-quality fish oil.
Robyn: My concern with fish oil is about it going rancid. Make sure you’re getting a really fresh product.
Dr. Wall: Yes. Another good source is high quality omega-3 krill oil. Whatever the source, make sure it’s high-quality and that you’re getting three to four grams per day. That’s 3000 to 4000 milligrams.
Number three would be to make sure your liver and gallbladder are functioning properly. If your liver or gallbladder is not functioning or your gallbladder has been removed, then the liver is not producing proper bile. If your bile is too sluggish, it can interfere with how you digest and absorb fat.
Robyn: So, if someone doesn’t have a gallbladder, they need to take digestive enzymes with all their meals? Is that correct?
Dr. Wall: Yes. They need to do that the rest of their life, or they won’t digest fat.
Every cell in the body is surrounded by a membrane two layers thick that’s made up of fat. If you’re not getting fat in your diet, then you’re not making healthy cell membranes.
Then, things like insulin can’t get into or out of the cell, and you can develop diseases like diabetes.
Number four would be oil pulling. Doing that every day helps to pull toxins out of the mouth and help keep ions like calcium phosphorous in the teeth. I highly recommend that.
Robyn: Oil pulling is something we feel very passionately about. Swishing oils first thing in the morning for 20 minutes attracts a ton of toxicity and makes the mouth an inhospitable place for the bad bacteria to grow, right?
Dr. Wall: Absolutely. Oil pulling also is an excellent way to decrease tooth sensitivity. Of course, you want to figure out why your teeth are sensitive, but oil pulling is a great short-term solution.
Number five is brushing with a non-fluoridated toothpaste. My personal favorite is The Natural Dentist. It doesn’t have sodium laurel sulfate, so you don’t get the foaming or the toxic soft tissue effects. Tom’s is also good.
Just make sure it doesn’t have fluoride and works well with your tissues. Some of them have higher levels of essential oils than your tissues can tolerate, so find one that works well in your mouth.
Number six is flossing daily. The American Dental Association came out with a study recently that said you don’t need to floss, but I couldn’t disagree more strongly. If you don’t floss your teeth for two days and look under a microscope, you’ll see all of the microbes swimming around.
Daily flossing is an absolute necessity, in my opinion. People who don’t floss are going to have huge amounts of bad oral flora, which will be swallowed into the gut. That can upset the balance, so flossing is crucial.
One of the things we do with our patients is take a sample from their teeth and put it under the microscope. That way, they can see how well they’re doing or how poorly they’re doing when it comes to their oral hygiene.
Number seven is always balance any carbohydrates you eat with protein and good fat. If you eat carbohydrates alone, your blood sugar will spike and cause an insulin crisis. That puts your body to put in a state of acidity, acidosis, rather than being in a calm, alkaline, parasympathetic state.
Robyn: Keep in mind that some foods have both fats and carbohydrates. If you eat nuts, you’re getting both in one food.
Dr. Wall: That’s absolutely right.
Number eight is that it’s also crucial to make sure your vitamin D3 levels are above 50 nanograms per milliliter. Studies show that most Americans are vitamin D deficient. I myself was vitamin D deficient and didn’t even know it.
Vitamin D helps your body to properly use calcium. There are two main sources of calcium in the body: bones and teeth. If you’re not getting enough calcium or aren’t able to digest it, your body will steal it from your bones or teeth.
If you supplement with vitamin D3, remember to find something high quality that combines D3 and K2, which should be taken together. Otherwise, your body will deposit calcium in places you don’t want it, like your blood vessels, kidneys, or gallbladder.
Robyn: That combination of D3 and K2 isn’t just important for your oral health. It also has significant correlation to your cancer risk. Yes?
Dr. Wall: Absolutely. In Japan, vitamin K2 is the number one treatment for osteoporosis. K2 and D3 work hand in hand. Some good sources of K2 include the sun if you live in a climate where you can get enough of it to make Vitamin D. You also can get K2 from organic eggs, natto, and cheeses like brie and gouda.
Robyn: Thanks so much for being with us and educating us about fluoride. You shared some important information about its risks and whether it really actually prevents cavities–as well as what we can do to keep our teeth strong naturally. Thank you, Dr. Judson Wall.
Dr. Wall: My pleasure. Thank you for having me.
1 Connett, Michael. “Respiratory Risks from Occupational Fluoride Exposure” Fluoride Action Network, 2008 Retrieved from: http://fluoridealert.org/studies/respiratory/
2 Brunelle, JA, Carlos, JP. “Recent Trends in Dental Caries in US Children and the effect of water fluoridation.” Epidemiology Branch, National Institute of Dental Research, National Institutes of Health, Bethesda, Maryland, 20892.
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